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Front Face Lock escape
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May 19, 2012
5:19 pm
Normy
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Hi all

I just watched a Damage Control youtube video called: Grovit Wrestling Front Face Lock.

I was wondering if anyone could explain or direct me to any escapes from this move?

 

Many thanks

May 20, 2012
3:20 am
paul thomas
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Hi and welcome !.

i will be interested to see the answers to this one too , from my pretty limited knowledge my first thought would be to try and work a hand between my cheek and his arm then force it back toward him and slip out to the side ? it would take some some pretty fast reaction though ! 

anyway im sure there will be an answer from the real experts here at DCMMA .

cheers paul. 

May 20, 2012
4:56 am
Normy
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Hi Paul

Yes I see what you mean, it looks like it’s immediate pain so there’s not much time to work an escape.

I’ve seen some holds where you can escape once they’re applied but this looks difficult.

 

Cheers

Normy

May 20, 2012
6:42 am
naturalbornfighter1
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Welcome to the forum buddy!! 🙂 That’s a great question, I’d wait for Dr.Sick to give you a detailed response. In the meantime I’d say the best defence is to catch a hold of the arm that’s going around you’re face and use it to buy you a millisecond of time before the hold is put on. The move comes on super quick and if it’s on you really have no option but to tap. 

In the time you get the arm in to defend I think I’d try an outer reap on my opponents leg and try to force them to fall and try to make my escape then.

 

It’s a tricky one for sure. Some of that Catch wrestling is just plain Evil haha.

 

I look forward to Dr.Sick’s answer. 🙂 Hope to see you on the forums some more Normy!

May 20, 2012
8:54 am
paul thomas
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Normy said

Hi Paul

Yes I see what you mean, it looks like it’s immediate pain so there’s not much time to work an escape.

I’ve seen some holds where you can escape once they’re applied but this looks difficult.

 

Cheers

Normy

like  you say its total pain the second its on so i think you would need a real fast reaction and try to get one hand inside the cross arm and pull down on it with the other if you can , a bit like a rear choke defence .

naturalbornfighter 1 

hi bud , like the outer reap idea too ! .

im sure Dr sick and coach kiser will come up with something good .

cheers paul

May 20, 2012
4:44 pm
Normy
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Hi Paul and Naturalbornfighter1

 

I see that the outer reap could work but I’m thinking, in the worst case senario where you have to work on the hold itself upright, is there anywhere to go?

I think, as mentioned, hands on the gripping arm and maybe taking your feet off the floor to maximise the weight on the hold, but that could put your neck under more pressure if you get it wrong!

 

Cheers

Normy

May 20, 2012
10:20 pm
Dr Sick

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lol! I appreciate and am honored to enjoy the confidence of my fellow Damage Controllers.

 

Normy, in answer to your question, I don’t know any escapes or counters to this technique. I would agree that gripping the wrist that is wrapped around your head is pivotal to surviving if you can.

 

I will do my best to remember and ask Coach Robinson next time I see him. In the mean while, I will say something that I feel pertains to your question that I learned from Professor Pedro Sauer. When asked about a escape or counter to the Rear Naked Choke, aka the Mata Leon, Professor simply smiled and said. “It’s too late my friend, the milk is on the table (there’s no use crying over the spilt milk).”

 

His went on to explain that some people would say, do this, do that, turn around, etc. But when the choke is on, it’s highly unlikely that you’re going to escape. Your efforts are better spent on learning how not to be caught in that bad position in the first place.

 

An example of this idea can be seen in it’s application to your question in the basic Catch As Catch Can Ready Stance.

 

Image Enlarger

 

You might also enjoy some of the side discussion in the article http://damagecontrolmma.com/mm…..-toe-hold/ which breifly covers the topic of stance.

 

In the meanwhile, if you enjoy our videos and seeing incredible legends like Coach Robinson, please consider supporting us with a membership. Your financial support allows us to continue attending the seminars, capturing the footage and bringing it to our viewers.

 

Yours truly,

Dr. Sick

May 21, 2012
12:04 pm
Normy
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Hi Dr Sick

First off, I really appreciate your response to my question, thank you so much for taking the time to reply.

 

So it looks as if there really is no way out of the hold once it’s locked in and the best thing is to not get caught in it, that is unless Mr Robinson can suggest something.

 

Ok that’s fine it’s all very interesting, I’m reading the related linked discussion and I am considering membership I’ll have to wait until the end of the month to decide.

 

Many thanks

 

Normy

May 21, 2012
1:29 pm
naturalbornfighter1
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It really is THE ULTIMATE HOLD!!! 😀 every technique has a counter then there’s a counter to the counter and that’s everlasting until you reach the Grovvit!!! Heehee! Or it will be until someone asks Coach Billy Robinson!

Hey Normy, I highly recommend the members only area. There’s over 300 instructionals. Many are in a series so they all link and flow together really well. Some of the video’s can be 10 minutes or so. It’s well worth the asking price. Once you sign up you’ll see just what I mean!
Keep the interesting posts coming man!

May 21, 2012
1:48 pm
paul thomas
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x2 dude ! 

Normy , get signed up mate you wont regret it, i can truly say i have learned so much in the short time ive been here its changed my training beyond belief . It has added real structure and direction and having the experience of people like Dr sick and coach Kiser at the end of my lap top keyboard is just awesome ! and thats not to mention the other great guys in the members area too.

 

 

cheers paul.

May 21, 2012
7:40 pm
Dr Sick

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Normy said

 

So it looks as if there really is no way out of the hold once it’s locked in and the best thing is to not get caught in it, that is unless Mr Robinson can suggest something.

 

 

That’s going to be the case with any submission.  Even the common arm bar, once it’s on, sure there’s a bunch of variations on escapes and counters but if someone’s really got it on and intends to do you harm, it’s probably too late.  We believe there are 4 timings for any escape/counter.  They are in order of precedence:

 

1. Be the one doing the technique, then you don’t have to worry about defending it.

2. Don’t allow yourself to be put into a compromised situation where you are vulnerable in the first place, then you don’t have to worry about defending it.

3. Be on time to the party.  That is, escape it as it’s coming on, not after the fact.  In the case of the Grovit, peel off the arm around your head and neck before he locks it into place and threatens to paralyze you for life.  Those of you with memberships can see this applied in the North South Escape Series… specifically the baseball grip escape (http://damagecontrolmma.com/me…..underhook/).Technically it’s not an escape because you are not allowing the technique to be put on in the first place.

4. Late to the party.  Nothing is ever over, there’s always an escape route, always a way out, but the later you are to the party, it becomes exponentially more difficult to pull off.  Sometimes, if your too late… the party is over.

May 22, 2012
1:34 pm
Normy
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Hi guys

Yes I will sign up, end of May/start of June.

 

So the old, ‘attack is the best defense’ is still the best way to nulify opponents .

I like to live in hope that there’s always a possible way out of anything but I guess being prepared is a big part of this.

 

Are the videos primarily for competition fighting or are there street techniques etc?

 

Cheers

 

Normy

May 22, 2012
2:20 pm
paul thomas
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Hi Normy 

great news on the sign up bud .

as far as the attack first goes it certainly has a place ,after all its better to be the hammer not the anvil lol !  and action always beats reaction ! 

cheers paul

May 22, 2012
2:27 pm
Dr Sick

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Normy said

Hi guys

Yes I will sign up, end of May/start of June.

 

So the old, ‘attack is the best defense’ is still the best way to nulify opponents .

I like to live in hope that there’s always a possible way out of anything but I guess being prepared is a big part of this.

 

Are the videos primarily for competition fighting or are there street techniques etc?

 

Cheers

 

Normy

 

It’s not that attacking is the best defense, it’s that being in the proper position and situation to attack, in most cases, places your opponent in a position and situation where he can attack but in all likelyhood will at best, fail misserably, and at worse, get him tapped or knocked out.  In the case of the Grovit, the guy getting Grovitted can definitely attack with some sort of takedown attempt, but in my opinion, with his posture broken and his neck endanged he’d be much better off playing defense.

 

Most of our videos are, in my opinion general purpose.  We don’t show biting or eye gouging or things of that sort, but could you defend yourself with the stuff we’ve shared in there?  You’d better believe it.  To understand our views and thougts on this subject be sure to check out our articles “Street Fighting 101” (http://damagecontrolmma.com/ho…..fight-101/) and “I Know Smith and Wesson” (http://damagecontrolmma.com/i-…..nd-wesson/).

May 22, 2012
3:06 pm
Normy
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Hi all

That’s fine I’m not after a ‘how to bite your way out of any situation’ I’m sure if I need to do that I can figure it out.

Knives are a big thing in the UK at the moment, lots of stabbings mostly youngsters. I saw a fight outside my kitchen window a couple of days ago.

Ten youngsters, must have been mid to late teens. I don’t know how it strted but they seemed to know each other. I heard someone say ‘one on one’, then noticed one guy run off and grabbed a large piece of wood and smashed it on the ground to make a managable stick while the other guy took off his belt and used it as a whip, buckle end first (full marks for inventiveness).

As they approached each other, the others got between them and shouted to stopped them from using weapons (full marks again). The next thing the two were in a very recognisable clinch, arms around each others necks and each trying bend the other over a waist high fence, to break thier balance.

It kind of ended here for me as I was cooking at the time and had to go back to my burning fish! When I went back to the window they guys had walked under my building and I don’t know what happened, typical summer punch-up I guess.

No real damage just a few slaps for someone.

What made me think was the clinch, I’ve expericed it and seen it a thousand times, and never knew what to do in this situation.

That’s basically what got me looking online.

 

Cheers

 

Normy

May 22, 2012
10:49 pm
Dr Sick

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Normy, that’s a hilarious story.  Hope your fish turned out. 🙂

 

MMA Clinch Series is coming very soon in the members area.  Up to this point we’ve more or less parsed the clinch material into Muay Thai Clinch, Greco Clinch, Dirty Boxing Clinch with very rudimentary and fundamental techniques and an emphasis on the core principals.  The MMA Clinch will focus more on combining elements to enhance one aspect or another.  For instance, you set up your Uchi Mata and your opponent hops off of your hip, head down.  You can now move into a Grovit, Guillotine, Half Haltch, or Thai Clinch.  Throw some knees from the Thai Clinch, and your opponent is going to head up, which opens the line for a Double Leg Shot.

May 23, 2012
12:07 am
paul thomas
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Hey Normy 

nothing like a bit of cabaret while your cooking eh haha !

I think it highlights the importance of grappling in self defence , its easy to say ” well i would stop him with my side thrust kick” or something but as i found out while working the door distance can be lost in an instant and humans instictivly grab hold and wrestle after the first punch or two is thrown,  as Dr Sick points out the various set ups and techniques from the clinch would be a huge advantage in real fight situation.

but hey lets keep the fighting in the dojo and just enjoy the fish lol !

cheers paul

May 23, 2012
12:58 pm
Dr Sick

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One day I’ll get over there to England and have me some propper Fish and Chips, Pie and Mash, and Eel Stew.

May 23, 2012
3:38 pm
paul thomas
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Dr Sick said

One day I’ll get over there to England and have me some propper Fish and Chips, Pie and Mash, and Eel Stew.

Ha Ha ! your a brave man if you want to eat jellied eels !! good fish n chips by the sea is pretty damm good though ,maybe with mushy peas or curry sauce or even a pickled egg ! 

there was a survey in the uk a while back and the countrys favorite meal was ment to be chicken tikka massala !!

cheers paul

May 23, 2012
4:55 pm
Normy
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I used to watch wrestling here in the 70’s on World of Sport every Saturday afternoon. I must have seen Mr Robinson wrestle along with a lot of other guys like Jackie Palloe, Les Kellet (maybe spelt the names wrong but I’m sure Mr Robinson would know them) and Mick McManus (who I’ve been told is a distant relative).

I always wondered where they came from because as a kid I could find boxing gyms all over London but I’ve never seen a wrestling club until recently since the UFC etc.

So I guess this was a northern thing rather than a London thing. I’m sure Mr Robinson would refer to me a soft southern pansy!

Oh and you really wouldn’t want to wrestle anyone who’d eaten pickled eggs or chicken tikka massala!

 

Normy

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