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cross/ rear right hand
August 7, 2009
10:17 pm
radioactive
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hi guys i want to know what u think regarding about the 1)rear leg being very bend or 2) nearly straight at full extension when throwing a cross for maximum power? there are trainers whom said or show in videos have used both of the options. much thanks

August 8, 2009
7:15 pm
naturalbornfighter1

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To be honest I have never really considered the angle at the knee joint when throwing a cross. I had a little shadow box to see what I usually do. My knee remains flexed the whole time although at the very end it is nearly straight. I think if I bent it too much I would feel my centre of gravity would be too low and put me in a bad position and probably off balance. Hope this helps, most likely it won't though sorry man :) I tried.

August 8, 2009
7:39 pm
Dr Sick

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Radioactive, welcome to the DamageControlMMA forums. Thank you for asking your questions here so that we can all benefit from each other's perspectives and experience.

I offer my opinions in this post but by no means should you take this as a definitive answer.

In my experience I have come across numerous contradictory theories and ideas concerning tactics, techniques and training methods. Not only have I encountered these contradictory ideas, but they have usually come from instructors at the highest levels with equal experience and expertise on the sides of each party.

What I have taken form these contrasting vantage points is that there really is no right or wrong way. If you can understand the reasoning behind why each instructor says to do it one way as opposed to another then you've really learned something. From that point on, you can make your own informed decisions based on how the different philosophies relate to your own, and how the different techniques relate to your strengths, weaknesses, temperament, and body type.

For example, I have heard Royce Gracie say that you should shoot a takedown by lowering the rear knee to the ground first before you drive in for the shot. I have heard Sean Sherk say the opposite, that when working a shot, you should lower your front knee to the ground first.

To hear these two methods and to focus purely on the technique could definitely be confusing. But when you step back and listen to their different contexts, things begin to make more sense.

Royce explained that his art is primarily a self defense art. That Gracie Jiu-jitsu was developed to defend a person on the streets. There he said, there are no soft mats or cushioned surfaces. If you put your front knee down first, he said (and I'm paraphrasing here), you will hurt your knee and maybe even injure your leg.

Sherk on the other hand was coming purely from a sport background where his takedown was specialized for the ring/cage/mat and optimized for the maximum amount of speed and power based on the environment he would be using his tool in.

Which was wrong and which was right? I'd say neither and both respectively. I have students who intend to use their art in combat sport, I have others who study primarily for self defense. I have the benefit of learning from two experts in the field of Martial Arts and I can give each kind of student the information they need to choose which method best suits their game and philosophy. Some may use one because they sport fight, others may use the other because of their self defense mentality, and still others will be able to switch depending upon the situation because they know which tool is best suited for the particular job.

As for the bent knee and the straight legged approach to the straight right/right cross, I'm not going to pretend to know why each of the instructors you've seen would do it one way over another. The best thing to do is to respectfully ask. But, from my humble experiences, I've been taught that the bent knee helps you to "sit down" on your punches and increase your power by lowering your center of gravity. I'm not certain why one would keep the leg straight. My unsolicited guess would be that it has to do with kinesiology and trying to create a pike of bone that runs from the ground up the shin bone, through the femur, up the spinal column and down the arm to increase the efficiency with which force is transferred from your body and into your opponent's.

I apologize if my attempt at answering this question is unsatisfactory. I know that simple black and white answers are always easier to swallow. I know that that's what I always wanted. But the more I begin to understand the nature of this enormous beast we call the Martial Arts, the more I feel that there are very few black and white answers if any.

Best of luck and thank you again for your support!

August 9, 2009
10:29 am
naturalbornfighter1

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Im afraid that was an unsatisfactory answer Brian, Produce another one! :) hee hee, just kidding!

August 12, 2009
5:06 pm
radioactive
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wow!! and thanks for the answer. You made me realize there is no right and wrong way to apply looking to consider distance, height,body type etc. .im stubborn i mean why can`t there be one definite answer to generate the fullest force of the primary arsenal for a fighter..it still makes me ponder …but however i should train applying both ways. Thank you so much for the reply guys and Great forum

August 13, 2009
10:01 am
zaxonortesus
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To echo what Brian said, in my few years of training, I have heard both. Personally, I am a fan of the 80/20 rule. Max power in a punch comes around the 80% arm extension point, and I will apply that same rule to my legs as well. I don't like to fully extend my rear leg because I find it easier to over commit to a punch and lose your center. I do fully see the 'chaining' aspect of it, making one solid connection from fist to ground, but instead of lining up the bones to do it, 80% muscle tension would give you nearly the same 'chain' but in an easier to control, more centered position. In the end, find what works for you. I am 6'3", 220, you may be 5'6" 145, and we would do things completely differently. When you find that motion that really delivers full power for you, you will feel it in your whole body, literally. Once you have that, just try and repeat it as much as you can.

August 16, 2009
11:51 am
Dr Sick

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I've been stewing on this a little more and I thought I'd throw a few more of my pennies ($.02) at this subject.

On one hand, Power is the great equalizer. Hit something hard enough and it's going to do damage. On another, I think power can be over-rated sometimes. Don't get me wrong, the ability to hit and hit hard is always a good thing to have. However, I think that focusing too much on it and ignoring other equally important factors such as timing, speed, placement and set up can hinder one's fight capabilities.

I guess I should ask, why is it that people feel that Power is important. My assumption would be, because it will increase one's potential to stop an opponent and finish a fight.

But in light of the time I have spent with Dr. Cacciamani and after applying what I've learned from him to what I've been taught in terms of Martial Arts techniques, I've found that if I am accurate, I don't necessarily need a lot of Power to put someone down. Certainly, the more Power applied to a specific target, amplifies the stopping potential but most times I just don't feel that I need (nor can I generate… I'm also between 145 -150) an overwhelming amount of force.

If hit like a truck but run into the point of an elbow or a Knee Block for a shin kick. That Power is going to harm you more than help you.

So I guess what I'm saying is, if your aim is to increase your ability to stop an attacker, you're time will be equally as well spent learning these other aspects. But if your aim is simply to hit hard, which is perfectly fine (I understand the value in isolating an aspect of a technique) then perhaps, focusing purely on Power isn't necessarily a waste of time either.

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