Log In
Register
Home
12:20 pm
Instructor
June 9, 2009
Offline
This just in from http://www.mmafighting.com/201…..drug-test/
8:26 pm
Official Member
July 18, 2009
Offline
A cheat is a cheat, but I want to know specifically what he tested positive for. They're still using urinalysis as a method for deteting users and that's fine when we're talking about recreational drugs, low-grade steroids and painkillers, but the truth is HGH and many other advanced doping agents only show up in blood. The benefits of some of these actually stay "active" for much longer than traditional steroids. Anyways, it's a problem in any sport…he was heralded as a blue collar fighter who took it to one of the best in the business for 24 minutes…now, he's just another name on a long list of cheaters.
12:59 am
September 15, 2010
Offline
HGH does not show up in blood tests in undectible. And all grade steroids will show up if detected quick especialy if its a fast acting steroid.Fast acting steroids can be out of your systems in days. And until the results show up and what it is lets wait and see.As a person who used to bodybuild he doesnt look like he took any steroids but if he did it ws a fast acting agent he tried to beat but as of now its all B-S
3:23 am
Post Leader
July 9, 2009
Offline
I'm just very dissapointed at this. I was really impressed by Sonnen in the Silva, Miller and Marquardt fights. This really puts a dampener on his achievements!
12:26 pm
Instructor
June 9, 2009
Offline
Kiser and I did a radio show segment on this topic the other day and the question arose, "Why not legalize it?" It's a doozy of a question. I do not advocate the use of performance enhancing drugs. I believe them to be a form of cheating and to be contrary to what I think is most intriguing about the sport… the level of technique. However, despite this, their use is prevelent and there are some strong arguments for their legalization in the sport as well as in others.
3:39 pm
Post Chaser
April 15, 2010
Offline
I could see this topic becoming a 25+ post debate now that you brought that quesiton up, Dr Sick. Haha. I would think people would argue that it should be legalized for the same reason they would argue recreational drugs should be: to make things easier because they really can't stop the use of it.
I say keep them illegal not only for the athlete's safety, but for the safety of the sport. Imagine how blown out of proportion and unbalanced it would become between the clean athletes and the enhancers. Also, MMA would end up with a pro-wrestling type reputation of super-athletic thugs with a tendency to go on 'roid rage and have small testicles. Haha. Forget that very last part, the rest was legit.
6:50 pm
Post Chaser
July 23, 2009
Offline
Dr Sick said:
Kiser and I did a radio show segment on this topic the other day and the question arose, "Why not legalize it?" It's a doozy of a question. I do not advocate the use of performance enhancing drugs. I believe them to be a form of cheating and to be contrary to what I think is most intriguing about the sport… the level of technique. However, despite this, their use is prevelent and there are some strong arguments for their legalization in the sport as well as in others.
I will agree on this. If you read non biased information on them either pro or con. They aren't the devil people claim for health reason or the huge performance difference either. They can also be counter to your goals. Your red blood cell count goes up. Those cells need oxygen you now tax you cardio system by default.
This whole stigma even makes it hard for the legitamite use of these medicines.
You cant legistlate morals they are given to you growing up.
9:08 pm
Post Chaser
April 15, 2010
Offline
I agree wylothar. Sometimes I have to step back and look at things from their point of view. It's not like you always see on the movies – evil, shady characters shooting up just so they can annihilate the good guy and terroize his/her family. They are just competitive athletes.
I'm not going to really say my opinion, because I'm not going to affect anything, and it's not really my argument.
11:01 pm
Instructor
June 9, 2009
Offline
The argument for fighters safety is a tough one. I'm not taking any sides here. I just think that this particular argument is a sticky one. You see, some would say, by allowing the use of steroids, athletes are more safe as their recuporative and regenitive abilities improve. Thus they are more healthy come fight time. How is that not safer? And using Sonnen vs Silva as a case study, how was having a rule against Performance Enhancing Drugs (PED's) making the fight any safer for Silva. He went in handcuffed against a guy who used despite the rule, which only became apparent after the fact.
As far as wylothar's statment is concerned here is some interesting information from the cagepotato.com
"Of the aforementioned fighters who were accused of steroid use after fights, 11 were successful in those fights, while 19 were unsuccessful. So, the jury’s still out in that whole 'competitive advantage' thing…" This is based on official busts from 02 – 10 according to cagepotato
3:22 am
Post Leader
July 9, 2009
Offline
It's a very interesting argument. What I would worry about most is the fighters like Lesnar, Aoki and Paul Daley who may be very aggressive naturally and after the fight they still hold submissions or try to attack their opponents.
With the use of steroids and the Roid Rage element It could end up disastrous. Imagine If a monster man like Lesnar was in a steroid enduced frenzy in the main event of UFC 100 when he had Frank Mir in that half nelson on the ground. The Ref says stop and Lesnar doesn't stop due to the Roid Rage – Who's going to stop him and what would the implications be for the sport at such a huge event?
If Paul Daley, frustrated after the Koscheck fight throws a punch after the bell, Lands clean this time on an unguarded Koscheck with his naturally heavy hands with extra power provided from the steroids. Daley already knocks out trained fighters that are trying to defend themselves. Against an unprotected fighter it could be deadly.
Combining increased power with temporary insanity doesn't sound like the best combination to me.
Also the WWE are under intense scrutiny at the moment as there have been abnormal amounts of fatalities of young Pro Wrestlers and it's being linked to steroid abuse. I think there may be lots still to learn about the use of steroids.
4:15 am
Post Chaser
July 23, 2009
Offline
wrong link roid rage is in large a fallacy. Even Chris Benoit was at first said to be roid rage till they did a scan of his brain and the massive rauma from that stupid diving head butt.
Name a single direct link that was undoubtlably steroids and not some other "drug of abuse". Research has shown that roid rage exist in less than 1% of cases and then it analogy was based on opinion.
I will admit if your a ass before being on them and you take them you are slightly more of an ass.
6:18 am
Post Chaser
April 15, 2010
Offline
I used to be in love with WWE (now watching it after studying and watching MMA, professional wrestling just looks even more dumb, haha) and remember the whole Chris Beniot ordeal. On Monday Night Raw, the announcers explained that, although he did have anabolic steriods in his house, he also had nearly 16 or so concussions from various reasons related to his professional wrestling career and they blame what he did on the mental instability that may have been caused by that. If you read the story of what officials decided happened, you can tell it wasn't 'roid rage. It happened over a course of something like 8 hours between the taking of his wife and boy, then himself. He even prayed multiple times and laid a Bible beside both members of his family. It's actually kind of a creepy story.
My opinion here is that it is the athlete's choice of whether or not to use that boost. It in most ways will only improve physical aspects, not necessarily technique. I, myself, am going to keep all natural and use only what is medicated by doctors. I want to be able to be pride myself on personally building up my body, rather than using boosts of some kind. It is like marijuana (which happens to be illegal for dumb reasons and is actually a physically safe, when used with precautions like consuming alcohol), I'm not against it, but I'm going to stay away from it.
3:22 am
Post Leader
July 9, 2009
Offline
wylothar said:
wrong link roid rage is in large a fallacy. Even Chris Benoit was at first said to be roid rage till they did a scan of his brain and the massive rauma from that stupid diving head butt.
Name a single direct link that was undoubtlably steroids and not some other "drug of abuse". Research has shown that roid rage exist in less than 1% of cases and then it analogy was based on opinion.
I will admit if your a ass before being on them and you take them you are slightly more of an ass.
TThat's very interesting. I was unaware of some of that stuff. You can see from all of the news reports why someone like myself would be mislead regarding the information given.
12:36 pm
Instructor
June 9, 2009
Offline
A recent development in this story
http://latimesblogs.latimes.co…..rone-.html
Sonnen to possibly face a 1 year suspension.
5:48 pm
Post Leader
July 9, 2009
Offline
It seems very strange that Sonnen would actually go out of his way to inform an official!
2:33 pm
November 20, 2010
Offline
this is an interesting topic. pros and cons both sides. honestly I think they should be legalized in sports. at least as far as they are done under a doctors supervision. steroids are used medically all the time. cortisone shot anyone? inhaler for asthma? both are steroids.
steroids can be great tools for healing a body. this is a rough sport and getting these guys healthy enough to fight in the ring is what we all want. making Rashad wait a year to fight for his title shot sucks in my opinion (i'm not saying in this instance steroids would get shogun ready faster. but if a doctor would think so, why not?)
I don't believe roid rage is real. we have plenty of lunatics in MMA. look at koshcheck or junnie browning for instance. (I've hung out with junnie browning. really good guy except for the major chemical imbalances in his head) We already have weight classes, and whatever sonnen took it doesn't seem to have made him exceptionally stronger than he would have been normally, or out of silva's league. bottom line steroids are not a magic potion that can bless you with technique. at the end of the day thats why silva won. criminalizing something because it's not well understood by the populace doesn't make sense to me.
9:56 am
November 20, 2010
Offline
http://sports.espn.go.com/extr…..id=5878409
An update. His suspension was reduced to 6 months from a year. Im not sure I agree with that totally. plenty of fighters take off 6 months between fights. At the least he was going to take off 4 anyways so is 2 months actually a punishment? I'm fine with dr. prescribed testosterone, but his explanation seems a bit shady.
12:34 am
July 30, 2009
Offline
Unlike sports such as cycling or track where the advantage of PEDs is observed in seconds or minutes, in mma the advantage can result in severe injury to your opponent. PEDs clearly improve explosive force as observed by significant improvements in exercises such as vertical jump and squats. If the PEDs allow the user to connect with more force then they would have otherwise , and the force is great enough to bust an orbital or crack a jaw, then the PEDs can cause injury to an opponent.
I don't think PEDs should be allowed in MMA competition and using them illegally is cheating and disrespectful to your opponent. My opinion is not as strong when it comes to "off season" use of PEDs to improve training and recovery but it may not be the wisest decision. If Shonnen truly does have low T, then it is likely due to long-term use of anabolic steroids as they can produce hypoganadism — he doesn't seem to have any other risk factors for low T other than possible injury to the scrotum.
11:54 am
November 20, 2010
Offline
Without a complete medical history it's kind of hard to speculate on his risk factors and why he may have developed low T. I'm not saying it's not from previous AAS use, but without further information I think it's a reach to jump to conclusions as to why.
As to injuries, I doubt that injuries happen more often in an opponent with AAS use. It's a contact sport, injuries happen period. I don't think Sonnens strength was anything out of the ordinary for a 185lb athlete. Andersen Silva didn't make it sound like this was the case at all.
3:40 pm
July 30, 2009
Offline
You are right, I am clearly speculating on this issue there is no way to tell the cause of his low T. And it may be difficult to know the cause even if a full medical history were present. Nevertheless, he doesn't have the traditional sedentary life-style risk factors. That being said, I was just taking a cheap shot at Shonnen — trust me, he would do the same. ;-)
I am not arguing that PEDs (specifically AAS) caused damage to Silva or anyone in particular. I was presenting a counterfactual argument, which is typically the way people think about causal relationships. If the extra force/strength gained by AAS allows the user to hit with more power than he would have if he didn't use the PEDs, and the result of the extra power was physical damage, then the PEDs caused the damage. Even if injuries are expected in a fight, the added damage was causally related to the PEDs. If you knew now that fighting person A without AAS would result in a 3-week recovery period for you, but if person A took AAS your recovery would be >3 weeks and may have the added expense of a surgical procedure – you would likely want to fight person A without AAS. I would.
All RSSMost Users Ever Online: 69
Currently Online:
9 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
naturalbornfighter1: 673
wylothar: 260
Dickey: 207
bio-chem: 173
TCMAG: 118
rob davis: 110
anointed fighter: 96
brian d: 95
Fear is the MindKiller: 94
zaxonortesus: 88
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 0
Members: 3031
Moderators: 1
Admins: 2
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 4
Topics: 604
Posts: 4070
Newest Members: johannes tangen, joffrebolda, stephen bullough, Ragib Karamehemdovic, kabuto68, iadapt
Moderators: Dr Sick (1164)
Administrators: admin (14), simplepress (0)
